[08:50] * Now talking in #knownspace
[08:50] * Topic is 'Welcome to #knownspace!! The chat room for Larry Niven.'
[08:50] * Set by SeanS on Tue Oct 17 16:29:44
[08:50] * Sean- has joined #knownspace
[08:50] * Sean- has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)
[09:26] * Nesssus has joined #knownspace
[09:27] <Nesssus> I'm six hours early for the chat. Who's awake?
[09:42] * CrazyEddy has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[10:12] * CrazyEddy has joined #knownspace
[10:41] <Nesssus> Welcome back Eddy
[12:38] * frGeek has joined #knownspace
[12:42] <Nesssus> Hi frGeek
[12:43] <frGeek> Hi Just checking up
[13:06] * NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:06] <NickE> Ni Hao folks
[13:06] * hankster has joined #knownspace
[13:07] <Nesssus> Hi Nick
[13:07] <Nesssus> Hi Hank
[13:07] <NickE> Hi Sean, Chris, Phil, Eddy, Mel and Hankster
[13:07] <Nesssus> Is Carol coming to the chat do you know?
[13:07] <hankster> HI guys, It's 2am here in Western Aus.
[13:07] <Nesssus> wow that's dedicatoin
[13:08] <NickE> Bit of a night owl Wayne?
[13:08] <hankster> not really, just got woken up by the cat and thought I'd see how the chat wsa going.
[13:08] <NickE> Not sure about Carol, she's often busy around this time but will usually put in at least a brief appearance
[13:09] <NickE> Well, bit early (esp for you!) yet
[13:09] <hankster> yeah that;s the reason don't get to most of the chats
[13:09] <NickE> Mind you, I was up till 3am with the service for Peggy
[13:09] <NickE> Shame
[13:10] <hankster> yes I was sorry that I missed that.
[13:10] <Nesssus> Just going to have something to eat now, I'll be back later
[13:10] <NickE> It was worth it though
[13:11] <NickE> Check out the log on the website, it was quite moving and Frank knew a lot of folks wanted to make it but couldnt
[13:11] <hankster> Raises a point though, does Internet chatting change the mourning process?
[13:11] <NickE> Not sure, but I think it can help being able to chat
[13:11] <hankster> I notice it when I came into the chat. Will look at it later.
[13:12] <hankster> One of the functions of the wake in the past was to assist in creating positive memories of the departed.
[13:12] <NickE> Dan and another guy, Bill I think went through the same loss and both said it helped to have something totally unconnected with the grief
[13:13] <NickE> I think that the online service managed to serve that purpose at least in part
[13:13] <NickE> Frank is still posting regularly, so I hope it is helping him in some small way
[13:14] <hankster> Yes my understanding is that he is going through a very stressful time with not only the loss of Peggy but having to move as well?
[13:15] <NickE> Yeah, when the universe decides to dump on you, sometimes it doesnt mess about
[13:16] <NickE> He's not in the best health himself of course which doesn't make it any easier
[13:16] <hankster> Yes somethimes life is hard, but it beats the alternative ;)
[13:16] <NickE> But I'm relieved to see the posts still flying :-)
[13:16] <NickE> Agreed
[13:17] <NickE> Going to be unbelievably British and talk about the weather now :-)
[13:17] <NickE> Mel, how's it down in St Ives?
[13:18] <NickE> Guess WA must be fairly warm, Autumn has finally got going here with frosts and leaves turning at last
[13:19] <hankster> Was 30 celcius today, but we had a thunderstorm and the odd rain shower.
[13:19] <NickE> Had to break out the heated grips on the motorbike for the first time this week
[13:20] <hankster> At least I've never quite needed that for the bicycle.
[13:20] <NickE> Warm indeed, we hit that and above this summer, they reckon it's the warmest on record for the UK
[13:20] <NickE> :-)
[13:21] <NickE> Well, I ride all year round, so it's kind of essential
[13:21] <hankster> 30 is nothing, just a pleasant spring day. when it hits 38 and above for 20 days straight is when it is warm.
[13:21] <NickE> Ouch!
[13:22] <hankster> predictions are for a long hot summer. lots of wild bush fires.
[13:22] <NickE> I'm not so good in that sort of heat
[13:22] <NickE> Ya, that must be a worry sometimes
[13:23] <hankster> at least it is a dry heat. off to Brisbane next week with the wife for the week (kids are staying home with their grandparents :)
[13:23] <NickE> The fireworks have started going off, the dogs hate it and I swear they get louder every year. Be the same tommorow night too
[13:24] <hankster> dont' notice the heat, spend most of the day in ari conditioned office and then in the air conditioned house.
[13:25] <hankster> What are the fireworks for? We have the local Dog track nearby that has fireworks at the end of the racing every week:)
[13:25] <NickE> Our lab at least is air conditioned
[13:26] <NickE> Nov 5th... odd that we should celebrate the *failure* to blow up Parliament :-)
[13:27] <hankster> Of course Guy Fawkes, Doh!
[13:27] <NickE> Y
[13:28] <hankster> Yes we stopped celebrating that years ago when I was a kid. I guess because of all the injuries due to fireworks and the bush fires they started.
[13:28] <NickE> Figures
[13:29] <hankster> Still it is a good way to remind parliament that they are but the "servants of the people" ;)
[13:31] <NickE> There was a show last year where they recreated what it would have been like if the plot had succeeded...BIG bang, v spectacular
[13:32] <hankster> Yes remember the talk about it at the time, but missed the show. Wasn't there some talk that it may not have killed all the people that Guy Fawkes nd co wanted to get rid of?
[13:34] <NickE> Probably, that the trouble with explosives, too damn indiscriminate, the ****s that use them never seem to be bothered by that though :-(
[13:36] <NickE> BRB
[13:38] <NickE> back
[13:39] <NickE> damn. New CD I bought is cutting out and got a hideous background click. 1st time thats ever happened
[13:41] <NickE> Vinyl on the other hand.. :-)
[13:41] <NickE> (got 200+ vinyl albums)
[13:43] <NickE> Not used to bad pressings of cds (know it happens though)
[13:43] <hankster> I've got a heap of vinyl I can't play as I need to get a turntable. Any suggestions for a half way decent unit?
[13:43] * NickE has quit IRC
[13:43] * NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:44] <NickE> wtf?
[13:44] <hankster> the joys of DRM, sure it hasn't installed a root kit on your machine;)
[13:45] <NickE> Hmm gona do some checking, the othe album I bought is doing it to, hope it's not the drive
[13:46] <hankster> TO get the topic back to Knownspace, would the means of mourning influence the availibility of organs for transplant?
[13:46] <NickE> Ripping it to mp3 and see if it still does it
[13:47] <NickE> Hmm. i guess attitudes would have to change (by law during that era of KS!)
[13:48] <NickE> Not sure anyone would have a choice, suspect that on death, you'd only get to cremate/bury whatever wasn't usable?
[13:48] <hankster> I know there are some religions that expressly forbid the examination of the body by surgical means afer death
[13:49] <NickE> Aye, plus a lot of folks wouldn't like it anyway
[13:49] <hankster> The only unusable part would be the brain?
[13:50] <NickE> Most likely. In fact I recall adescription of the process in one of the stories and indeed the brain is flash burned for later burial
[13:50] <hankster> To be honest both my wife an I are down as organ donars, we figure what do we need it for when we are dead.
[13:51] <NickE> As are we both
[13:51] * NickE has quit IRC
[13:51] * NickE has joined #knownspace
[13:51] <hankster> Given how many people are on Earth at the time, would burial or even disposal of the ashes into the environment be acceptable?
[13:52] <NickE> OK. Seems every time I eject a CD I get booted!
[13:52] <hankster> R U using the java client?
[13:53] <NickE> Disposal of ashes shouldnt be a prob, readily biodegradable. Just stick Granpaw in with the tomato compost :-)
[13:53] <NickE> Yes, that a known glitch?
[13:54] <NickE> I've found it very usable for quite a while without probs
[13:54] * hankster has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)
[13:55] * hankster has joined #knownspace
[13:55] <NickE> wups
[13:55] <NickE> Java probs?
[13:55] <hankster> hit a function key that dropped me out
[13:55] <NickE> ah
[13:56] <hankster> speaking of guyfawkes, here is the Wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_fawkes
[13:57] <hankster> the guys editing that really liked V
[13:58] <NickE> Well yes :-)
[13:59] <NickE> Most folks only know the 1st 2 lines of the rhyme though
[13:59] <hankster> getting back to earlier discussion, yes I guess placing grandad joe in the compost would work, but there would be restrictions of dumping his ashes into the ocean
[14:01] <NickE> possibly. Course, with a >10 billion pop. you coudl use the ashes to compact and make a new landmass :-)
[14:01] <NickE> Land of teh Dead
[14:03] <hankster> dumping that much solid matter in the ocean would affect water levels around the world. One way of fighting a war againt the Netherlands or Micronesia
[14:03] <NickE> :-) Yep them damn Dutch :-)
[14:04] <NickE> Then again, there's a market there for "Granpaws Miracle reclamation Bricks"
[14:05] <hankster> I guess that would be nice, buiding your house on your ancestors. :) would take many generations to build a house tho:)
[14:06] <NickE> There's the germ of a story there... "When I say this is the house of my ancestors, I mean it litereally...."
[14:07] <hankster> One thing I love about the KS stories is that does not appear to be a lot of waiting around, mind you doesn't make for exciting reading if you include all the waiting.
[14:08] <NickE> True. Larry's very good at the concise neat story, no messing about to get to the neat ideas
[14:08] <NickE> Mostly
[14:09] <hankster> sometimes a little dramatic waiting adds to the story (build the dramatic tension)
[14:10] <NickE> used sensibly of course, I've read books that really overdid it and you got so fed up of waiting that the moment when it comes is diminished
[14:11] <hankster> I always love the way he could just drop a new technology in with a little note, as part of the story, rather than introducing it and explaining it all, he leaves it to the reader's imagination to
[14:11] <NickE> oh yeah
[14:11] <hankster> put a physical form to the item
[14:11] <NickE> way ahead of you :-)
[14:12] <NickE> Wayne, I gotta go eat, but will be back in 20-30 mins, Won't be offended if you go back to bed :-)
[14:13] <hankster> It's been great talking but I'm going to crawl into bed
[14:13] * NickE is now known as Nick
[14:13] <hankster> cu l8tr
[14:13] <Nick> Later
[14:13] * hankster has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)
[14:33] <Nick> back
[14:33] <Nesssus> so am i
[14:33] * Nick is now known as NickE
[14:33] <NickE> Hows it going Mel
[14:34] <NickE> Not seen you in the chat for a while
[14:34] <Nesssus> OK Nick
[14:34] <Nesssus> I'm usually busy at weekends
[14:35] <NickE> Work or play?
[14:35] <Nesssus> Play ;-)
[14:35] <NickE> Glad to hear it :-)
[14:35] <Nesssus> I'm only at home tonight because I'm waiting for the freezer to defrost itself
[14:35] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has joined #knownspace
[14:35] <NickE> Lioke you do
[14:36] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> dudes
[14:36] <Nesssus> turned it off at 9:00 am and there's still ice in it now
[14:36] <Nesssus> hi Nick Danger
[14:36] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> hi nesssus
[14:36] <NickE> Hey t'other Nick
[14:36] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> hi nick
[14:36] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye walks out of the fog, and into the smog.
[14:37] <Nesssus> fog to smog
[14:37] <NickE> got plenty of aunumnal mists up our way
[14:38] <NickE> atumnal
[14:38] <NickE> autumnal
[14:38] <NickE> typing up to usual standard
[14:38] <Nesssus> it's started getting cold here too now
[14:39] <NickE> Really notice it in the early morning this week
[14:39] * Harry_Redd has joined #knownspace
[14:39] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> oh ya, it was nice and warm, and now it's bloody freezing
[14:39] <NickE> Hey Frank
[14:39] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> but it's grim up north
[14:40] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> frank, the frankster, frankorama, the frankinator!
[14:40] <Harry_Redd> Hi All.
[14:40] <NickE> Ah, forgot that was you Mark :-)
[14:41] <Harry_Redd> --
[14:41] <Nesssus> Hiya Frank
[14:41] <NickE> How ya doing Frank, good to see you
[14:41] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> heh. I need to quit changing my alias
[14:41] <NickE> :-)
[14:42] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> i'm supposed to be working on these changes Mr. Lambert made... plus I need to go get some fireworks
[14:42] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> it being the 5th of November and all
[14:42] <NickE> Had a spate of 'em earlier
[14:42] <Harry_Redd> Trying to get some coffee in me.
[14:42] <NickE> Yeah, the dogs hate it
[14:42] <Harry_Redd> Say Happy Birthday.
[14:42] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> listening to Bowling for Soup. Highly recommended
[14:42] <NickE> Work that caffeine Frank
[14:43] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye screams "HAPPY BIRTHDAY"
[14:43] <Harry_Redd> Thank you.
[14:43] <NickE> who's that by/
[14:43] <Nesssus> Happy Birthday Frank!
[14:43] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> that's the name of the band.
[14:43] <NickE> Whoa, Happy BD Frank
[14:43] <NickE> <D'oh!>
[14:43] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> "You're bitch but I love you anyway... you can't sing, but you still put me to sleep..."
[14:43] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> and such lyrics
[14:44] <NickE> genre?
[14:44] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> kind of like slightly lighter version of Offspring, but funnier
[14:44] <NickE> Offspring ar pretty good
[14:44] <Harry_Redd> I've been seeing ads for a group called Trans Siberian Band. In the ads they sound good, but I don't know anyone who's actually heard them.
[14:45] <NickE> playing Duke by Genesis, HMV had it for a fiver, and I've been meaning to pick up a copy fpr ages
[14:45] <NickE> Not heard of 'em either
[14:45] <NickE> Also go the 1st evanescence album for another fiver
[14:46] <NickE> What's the sort of sound Frank?
[14:47] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> they did a cover of Summer of 69, that brian adams song about what he was doing when he was 3
[14:47] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> as he isn't much older than i am
[14:47] <Harry_Redd> Anyway, I got The book off yesterday. Postal Express. It should be in Monday. I insured it for $300 so if anything happens, It will pay for a nes copy and some postage.
[14:47] <NickE> I was 5 in 69
[14:48] <Harry_Redd> The sound is kinda Mannheime Steamroller on Stiroids.
[14:48] <NickE> Excellent news Frank. glad to see that this one is so far making good progress
[14:48] <NickE> Right. None the wiser :-)
[14:48] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> Really, I was born in 69
[14:49] <Harry_Redd> I know it would be a lot of work, but there should be a singal controler that directs the mailing.
[14:49] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> I'd like to sign the book, but I am afriad of what I am like... (forgetting to do things, forward books on to the next person... that sort of thing...)
[14:49] <NickE> I can remember the moon landing clearly
[14:49] <Harry_Redd> So can I ;-)
[14:49] <Nesssus> I was minus two in '69
[14:50] <NickE> Well, I'd volunteer to organise the UK leg when it gets here
[14:50] <NickE> :-)
[14:50] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> Was it buzz aldrin or neil armstrong that punched out the moon landing hoax dude? that was great.
[14:50] <Harry_Redd> Talk to cat about it.
[14:50] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> to get beat up by a 70 year old dude... on camera. priceless
[14:50] <NickE> Really, cool
[14:51] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> "Second is right after first, Homer"
[14:51] <Harry_Redd> You might get the Brits and other Europeans to send you their names and contact info so you can organize it.
[14:51] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> maybe we could all meet up in Birmingham or somewhere in the middle
[14:52] <Harry_Redd> Yupper. It's sad when a man like BNuzz looses his punch.
[14:52] <NickE> Might just do that. Have to look at the posting method though, not sure I trust Royal Mail
[14:52] <NickE> That would be cool, have a UK list shindig
[14:52] <Harry_Redd> That seems tro ocall for a central meeting then Nick.
[14:52] <NickE> <waht have i let myself in for>
[14:53] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> i volunteer my house, but I'm up north here near blackburn
[14:53] <Harry_Redd> Most likely, a party Nick. ;-)
[14:53] <NickE> That would make sense, get as many as possible to sign it in one shot so we don't have to have it in the postal system more than absolutely necessary
[14:54] <Harry_Redd> How about you Nessus?
[14:54] <NickE> And Mell is waaaay down south in Cornwall
[14:54] <NickE> :-)
[14:54] <Nesssus> the ass end of nowhere
[14:54] <NickE> Pretty though
[14:54] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> ya. we need to find a pub inbetween
[14:54] <Nesssus> true
[14:55] <Harry_Redd> Hmmm, Well, you guys sort it out.
[14:55] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> I want to move to Cornwall, but there is no work for me there
[14:55] <Nesssus> it's bloody expensive to live here too
[14:55] <Harry_Redd> I think I'll make another cup of coffee.
[14:55] <NickE> Banbury is fairly central, so there's a posibilty
[14:55] <Nesssus> when was you last down, Nick
[14:55] <NickE> Oxfordshire is bloody dear too
[14:56] <NickE> Last year, but didn't know your addy, otherwise might have dropped in for a cuppa :-)
[14:56] <Nesssus> where did you stay?
[14:56] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> I can do Banbury I think. Where is it?
[14:56] <Harry_Redd> The sins of Political Correctness. Where the Extream Left Liberals have control, everything gets E*X*P*S*E*N*S*I*V*E!
[14:56] <NickE> We were over the other side at Looe
[14:57] <Nesssus> Never been there
[14:57] <NickE> about an hour south of Birmingham, half an hour north of Oxford
[14:57] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> the extreme left here doesn't have control. the extreme left are communists here
[14:58] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> I can do that.
[14:58] <NickE> There are a few listers in the south, Tim Atkinson, Alex Aplin, and Dave Gordon is in London
[14:59] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> I'm going to go to the store and get Jayne some wine... and maybe a few explosives
[14:59] <NickE> Have to do a shout out on the list to test the water so we're ready for the book when it gets here, whenever that is
[15:00] <Nesssus> Banbury's just about as Central as you can get
[15:00] <NickE> Catch you in a bit then
[15:00] <NickE> Yep, it's certainly about as far from the sea in any direction as is possible on this island
[15:02] <NickE> brb
[15:03] <Harry_Redd> Nick, compaired to what I've seen reported like Spy Cameras and the like, Communists look like they are middle of the road conservatives!
[15:04] <Nesssus> True, there's CCTV everywhere
[15:05] <NickE> It IS getting ridiculous
[15:05] <NickE> It's the most intrusive govt I can remember, and they want to do it more!
[15:06] <Harry_Redd> Nobody seems to have learned the lesson George Orwell taugh Nick.
[15:06] <NickE> Aye :-(
[15:06] <Harry_Redd> Yeah, and it LABOR too!
[15:07] <NickE> I'm increasingly of the opinion of Lazarus Long..."when a planet gets crowded enough for ID cards, it's time to leave!"
[15:07] <Nesssus> I'm glad that at some point I will be leaving this country for good
[15:07] <NickE> You emigrating? I've thought about it
[15:07] <Nesssus> In fact, I'm surprised that I'm still here
[15:08] <NickE> not so easy now with 4 kids, would have done it years ago if the opp had presented itself
[15:09] <NickE> Don't want to. I like living here, but it's getting kinad crazy
[15:09] <Harry_Redd> You have 2 choices. Leave or fight. However, if you just leave, the very things you are leaving will follow you.
[15:09] <Harry_Redd> Bah! HUMBUG. I need more coffee.
[15:09] <NickE> Probably true. Fight it is then!
[15:10] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> i don't like the cameras
[15:10] <Nesssus> I see a string of CCTV cameras floating across the atlantic
[15:10] <Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye> besides, what's the point. the criminal justice system in the UK is so broken, that what does it matter if they catch you?
[15:10] <NickE> Hate the bloody GATSOs esp. Not been caught yet, but sure it is only matter of time
[15:11] <NickE> Aye, every day you read stuff and you wonder what insane planet you've landed on
[15:11] <Harry_Redd> No Need. Just the export of "EXPERTS" To the Ivy League Schools Nessus. We can build our own Camers... And I cauight note that Most Brit Passenger Aircraft are Already wired.
[15:12] <Nesssus> I think the whole thing about global warming and the fate of the planet is a lot worse than we've been led to believe
[15:12] <Harry_Redd> Well, You could convert to Islam and be safe from the couirts. :-[
[15:12] <Harry_Redd> I think it's a hook to hang repression from.
[15:13] <Harry_Redd> BRB
[15:13] <NickE> -k-
[15:14] * Larry has joined #knownspace
[15:14] <Larry> Hello!
[15:14] <NickE> Hey Larry!
[15:15] <NickE> Frank is just getting some coffee
[15:15] <Larry> I've got stomach flu. How are y'all?
[15:15] <NickE> Bummer, hope it passes (sorry!) soon. 'S no fun, I had it earlier this year
[15:16] <Nesssus> Hello Larry
[15:16] <NickE> ah, just bitching about CCTV intrusion an stuff
[15:16] <Nesssus> copseyes (;-))
[15:16] <Harry_Redd> Hi Larry.
[15:17] <Harry_Redd> What I find interesting is that Americans seem to Mourn the passing of what was British Culture more than the Brits do.
[15:17] <NickE> yep, where's that character from Cloak of Anarchy when you need him?
[15:17] <Larry> I'm sticking with Imodium. Marilyn offered me some prescription of hers, but I told her that was a crap shoot.
[15:17] <NickE> :-)
[15:17] <Harry_Redd> Right Here Nick!
[15:17] <NickE> Imodium should do it
[15:18] <Larry> O
[15:18] <Nesssus> What did you eat?
[15:18] <Harry_Redd> Larry, might I suggest you get some Gator-Aid? keep your electrolytes up.
[15:18] <NickE> sensible
[15:19] <Larry> I'm told old Brit language survives better here than there, too. Shakespearian old.
[15:19] <NickE> Yes, read something about that a while back, esp in parts of the east I believe
[15:19] <Larry> Gatorade: good plan. What I ate: nothing odd. General malaise makes it flue.
[15:20] * Treehugger has joined #knownspace
[15:20] <Nesssus> Hi Treehugger
[15:20] <Harry_Redd> Getting your Electrolytes might help there too Larry.
[15:20] <Treehugger> Hi all
[15:20] <NickE> We complain about Americanisms creeping into the language, but it's prolly just OLD Englisisms coming back in :-)
[15:20] <Harry_Redd> Hi Hugg.
[15:20] <NickE> Hi George
[15:21] <Treehugger> American english is mostly a collection of stuff that crept in from other cultures. What are we talking about?
[15:22] <Harry_Redd> Well, bcak when the King's English was still growing, It made no fuss about adopting new words.
[15:22] <NickE> The worst sympoms usually don't last too long, but feeling crap afterwards can be a drag too
[15:22] <NickE> Oh sure, English is anything but a pure tongue
[15:22] <Harry_Redd> In fact, The king's english would follow otrher languages ddown dark streets, mugg them and rifle their pockets!
[15:23] <NickE> someone uses that as a sig quote on the list i believe
[15:23] <Nesssus> I'm never sure anymore what inflection I'm writing in because of Microsoft's insistence in using American english spellings
[15:23] <Harry_Redd> Oh sure, English is anything but a pure tongue The Results of Norman men at arms trying to make dates with Saxon Barmaids!
[15:23] <Treehugger> Indeed, Frank!
[15:24] <Harry_Redd> That's a quote froim H. Beam Piper by the way.
[15:25] <NickE> Isn't someone on the list familiar with proper Old English? Sure i recall some mention of them reading Beowulf in the original
[15:25] <NickE> ah
[15:25] <NickE> On topic ther almost :-)
[15:26] <Harry_Redd> Considering the Depts of this list, I'm sure that wee have someone with that skill set.
[15:26] <NickE> Love Heorot
[15:26] <NickE> :-)
[15:26] <NickE> brb
[15:27] <Harry_Redd> DEPTH!
[15:28] <NickE> That too :-)
[15:28] <Nesssus> Larry, what do you think of all the gloom and doom stories in the media at the moment about depleted fish stocks and global warming. How long do you think that we've got left?
[15:28] <Larry> The debts of this list...what do we owe to our English forebears?
[15:29] <Harry_Redd> Considerable Larry. A working Mind Set for one.
[15:29] <NickE> There's a can of worms... :-)
[15:30] <Larry> Depleted fish stocks etc.: I don't do my own research. They're predicting collapse in the 40s. I wonder if a fixed future is predictable that far. Consider a plague coming first.
[15:30] <Treehugger> "And let's not forget you pinched our language!" ---John Cleese
[15:30] <Harry_Redd> There are 2 on the way Larry.
[15:30] <Harry_Redd> And a heavy war.
[15:32] <Harry_Redd> When you consider that the oceans are 70% of the surface, I tend to suspect the figures on fish populations given. LOTS of places for fish to go where they are hard to find.
[15:32] <NickE> I think, despite all the pesemistic themes running through the media lately (and when has it been that much different?) that it is getting increasingly difficult to make even shrt term predictions with any accuracy
[15:33] <Treehugger> Predictions tend to start with, If Things Remain as They Are . . . but they never do. Things change everyday.
[15:33] <Harry_Redd> Like I said earlier Nick. I think the Global Warming (a .5% in ten years?) is a hook to hang repression on.
[15:33] <NickE> Exactly
[15:33] <NickE> That too to some extent I'm sure
[15:33] <Treehugger> The world climate has never been stable and unchanging.
[15:33] <NickE> Bingo
[15:34] <Larry> Yeah. beware of folk who want to make lots of people do things.
[15:34] <Harry_Redd> None of the members of the Media seem to realize that Climate is a dynamic System with very many factors involved and is in a continual state of flux.
[15:34] * FRED has joined #knownspace
[15:34] <NickE> Soemthing IS up, but we simply don't have enough data or accurate models to be sure exactly what is going on
[15:34] <FRED> greetings
[15:35] <NickE> Hi Fred
[15:35] <Harry_Redd> People tend to consider "Normal" as how things were like whern they were `10 years old.
[15:35] <NickE> True
[15:35] <Harry_Redd> Hi Fred!
[15:35] <FRED> hey harry
[15:35] <FRED> I entered my name as FRED SCREAMS AND LEAPS
[15:35] <FRED> but it seems to have truncated me . . .
[15:35] <Larry> Pournelle believes that we lack data. We should be plowing our money into getting more data.
[15:35] <NickE> And stuff can happen a lot faster in all sorts of areas that can have been expected within a lot of people's lifetimes
[15:35] <Larry> (Meaning global warming, of course.)
[15:36] <NickE> More data good
[15:36] <FRED> good data good
[15:36] <NickE> He's right IMO
[15:36] <FRED> we need both
[15:36] <Harry_Redd> Morfe GOOD data.
[15:36] <NickE> Well, yes
[15:36] <FRED> Hello Mr. Niven
[15:36] <FRED> and Nesssus!
[15:36] <Larry> Hello Fred.
[15:37] <FRED> should I do an obNiven gushing here, or would that embarrass you? :)
[15:37] <Treehugger> If we're doing things that damage our only world's life support system, let's find out exactly what.
[15:37] <Treehugger> Then decide if we can or should try a fix.
[15:37] <Harry_Redd> Anyone notice the tendancy to consider the death of ANY Law officer to be heroic, even when it was the law officers's one action that killed him? Right out of 1984!
[15:38] <Harry_Redd> Fix? That's like an Ant climing up an elephants ass with RAPE on it's mind!
[15:38] * Conundrummer has joined #knownspace
[15:38] <NickE> Agreed. While I think we lack data, i see no reason not to reduce waste heat/energy/Co2 on general principles
[15:38] <Harry_Redd> Hi Con. Welcome.
[15:38] <NickE> Hi
[15:38] <FRED> 12we used to shoot Hi Con film all the time . . .
[15:39] <Nesssus> Even if some countries do start limiting their emissions there are countries like the former soviet union who won't do the same
[15:39] <NickE> <groan>
[15:39] <Conundrummer> Hi everyone
[15:39] <Treehugger> Well, not fix as such, but back off of things we find to actually be harmful.
[15:39] <FRED> 12which brings you right back to 'more data'
[15:40] <NickE> yup
[15:40] <Treehugger> Right
[15:40] <Harry_Redd> China, India, Brazil Mexico, It's a LONG LIST!
[15:41] <Harry_Redd> And we don't even know if what we are doing is causing the Damage!
[15:41] <NickE> find it very arrogant of certain scientists to assume that we know everything significant...about any subject
[15:41] <Treehugger> The ice caps may well melt, but they do that. Is it our fault? Maybe. Can we stop it? No.
[15:41] <Treehugger> Agreed, Nick!
[15:41] <Treehugger> What we can do is prepare for it.
[15:41] <NickE> Aye
[15:41] <Harry_Redd> Should we stop it at all?
[15:42] <Treehugger> Can we?
[15:42] <NickE> adapting, thats what humans are good at
[15:42] <Treehugger> I think not.
[15:42] <Treehugger> We can maybe slow it down.
[15:42] <NickE> (big sunshades)
[15:42] <Treehugger> We can't stop the planet's climate from changing. That might well shut it down!
[15:42] <Larry> Buying time is very often worth doing. (Though not in politics.)
[15:43] <NickE> but that woudl mean putting money into exploiting space...and we can't have that can we :-/
[15:43] <Harry_Redd> Ecosystems tend to be persistant. They will change nomatter what factors are varied. Change too many factors and you get changes you don't weant. (Draco Tavern story there Larry?)
[15:43] <NickE> True
[15:43] <Treehugger> Very true.
[15:44] <NickE> Heck, if it gets us off our collective butts and into space, I'm for it! ;-)
[15:44] <Harry_Redd> lomebody should be selling the Greens on Moving Earth's heavy industries off Earth to Orbit or to LUNA.
[15:44] <NickE> Jerry was right on that one
[15:45] <Treehugger> As Frank said, people tend to think the way things were when they grew up is the way things are meant to be.
[15:45] <Harry_Redd> Hanging with Jerry has colored my thinking... For the better I think.
[15:45] <NickE> :-)]
[15:45] <Treehugger> The greens don't know that? The diea has been around for decades.
[15:45] <Treehugger> idea
[15:45] <Larry> HR, that's the right propaganda move. Get the industries off the Earth. Get war off too.
[15:45] <NickE> Those Step Farther Out articles sill have a lot os sense in them
[15:46] <Harry_Redd> The greens think that the polution of the atmosphere by rockets is as bad as industrial Polution.
[15:46] <NickE> mad
[15:46] <Nesssus> build a beanstalk then
[15:46] <Harry_Redd> Just like some people think Wages Slavery is equivalant to Chattle Slavery in Africa.
[15:46] <Treehugger> Oh, my mistake. Forgot they were stupid.
[15:47] <NickE> But I don't want us to have to build Michael as a matter of species survival
[15:47] <Harry_Redd> I say do it like tyhe manhattan Project built the Bomb. Try EVERYTHING!
[15:47] <NickE> Do it for the fun factor! :-)
[15:47] <NickE> Guess we're preaching to the choir here
[15:48] * SpaceCowboy has joined #knownspace
[15:48] <NickE> A beanstalk would be neat. I'd love to see C nano tubes really come into their potential
[15:48] <NickE> H Cowboy
[15:48] <NickE> hi
[15:49] <SpaceCowboy> Good afternoon, all.
[15:49] <FRED> 12hey space
[15:49] <FRED> 12or should I say 'maurice'?
[15:49] <Harry_Redd> Hi Bill.
[15:49] <NickE> :-)
[15:49] <Treehugger> They'd have to be stronger than at present. The tubes, I mean.
[15:49] <FRED> 12I saw The Tubes in concert
[15:50] <NickE> Sure, and longer, but the research is really at an early stage I hope
[15:50] <FRED> 12in a high school cafetorium
[15:50] <NickE> cool
[15:50] <Harry_Redd> NANNO Technology is really starting to take off. LOTS of uses for it.
[15:51] * Sean- has joined #knownspace
[15:51] <NickE> and plenty of irrational fears when it's reported still I'm afraid, stuill see refs to "the grey goo" idea...sheesh
[15:51] <Sean-> hi all
[15:51] <NickE> Hi Sean
[15:51] <FRED> 12hi Sean
[15:51] <Harry_Redd> Hi Sean.
[15:51] <FRED> 12or, what Nick said
[15:51] <Sean-> at a friend's, will be back down to the house shortly
[15:51] <NickE> k
[15:52] <FRED> 12you have a friend?
[15:52] <Harry_Redd> NAno tech means a LOT more than 'Bots.
[15:52] <FRED> 12what's that like?
[15:52] <Sean-> amazing isnt it ;)
[15:52] * Sean- has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)
[15:52] <NickE> course it does, but out of control bots seems a prevelant idea in soem quarters
[15:53] <Harry_Redd> COnsidering how often Popular Media has been totally WRONG about thing, It's a wonder that anyone; other than retarded Media stars; believes them anymore.
[15:53] <NickE> we're nowhere near that stage yet and the materials side of things is becoming very interesting
[15:53] <NickE> true
[15:55] <NickE> quantum computing is also getting closer bit by bit (pardon the pun)
[15:55] * Nick_Danger_3rd_Eye has quit IRC (Quit: Quit)
[15:55] <SpaceCowboy> I've been hearing of some intriguing medical applications that are already being tried (very primitive form, just engineered molecules) but I'm a bit woozy and can't remember what or where.
[15:55] <Harry_Redd> So is True Optical Storage and Entanglement.
[15:55] <NickE> may never be truly practical, but I'll bet there will be useful spinoffs
[15:55] <NickE> at the very least
[15:56] <NickE> Yes, drug delivery systems are potential applications of engineered nano particles
[15:57] <Harry_Redd> And nomatter who bright the Futuire brought about by new Technology, The LUDDITES rise to pull us back into the Cesspool.
[15:57] <Harry_Redd> Did you try Gator-Aid SC?
[15:57] <SpaceCowboy> SAdly, the Luddites appear to be running the world.
[15:58] <NickE> Noisy minority I'm hoping
[15:58] <Harry_Redd> Beuaerocracy is the IDEAL career for a LUDDITE!
[15:58] <NickE> agreed
[15:58] <SpaceCowboy> No, Felix, haven't felt like leaving the house into the cold. Maybe later today.
[15:58] <FRED> 12obNiven -- there's a special place in hell for them
[15:58] <Harry_Redd> It gives them power without responsibility!
[15:59] <NickE> along with those who talk at the theatre? :-)
[15:59] <NickE> <Firefly ref>
[15:59] <Harry_Redd> On CELLLPHONES with Obnixious RINGTONES!
[15:59] <NickE> and Inferno of course :-)
[16:00] <NickE> Oh yes
[16:00] <SpaceCowboy> Yes: Critics are a perfect career --
[16:00] <Treehugger> Speaking of Inferno . . . anybody read Purgatorio yet?
[16:00] <NickE> Yeah Larry, what stage is that at?
[16:00] <FRED> 12is that out?
[16:01] <Treehugger> No, 'cause Larry hasn't written it yet!!
[16:01] <Harry_Redd> I think it's JERRY'S turn to finetune it right now.
[16:01] <Treehugger> Go on, deny it!
[16:02] <NickE> So, just how long has Purgatorio been cooking, I recall ref to it in an old Galaxy I read recently!
[16:02] <Treehugger> It's Jerry's fault. It's a fair cop.
[16:02] <Nesssus> its got to be about 5 years
[16:03] <NickE> longer
[16:03] <Treehugger> What's being worked on now, Larry? What's to look forward to?
[16:03] <Harry_Redd> Something like that, With deep scope and depth takes a LONG time to do right Nessus.
[16:04] <Treehugger> Might be hard to go back there. Inferno was written fast because you guys wanted out, right?
[16:05] <NickE> 4 months wasn't it Larry?
[16:06] <Nesssus> maybe the stomach flu has struck again
[16:06] <NickE> :-( hope not
[16:06] <Larry> I tried Gatorade, yes, thanks.
[16:07] <SpaceCowboy> I wish it were flu -- then I'd have a reason. Pinky Tener suspects something more ominous.
[16:07] <Harry_Redd> Feel a bit better Larry> When I wa sick last time A 12 oz glass popped me back into something approching focus.
[16:08] <Larry> Purgatorio looks to be almost half finished. You never know.
[16:08] <NickE> :-) we await with interest
[16:08] <FRED> 12and baited breath
[16:09] <SpaceCowboy> Been eating raw herring, chum?
[16:09] <NickE> :-)
[16:09] <SpaceCowboy> :)
[16:09] <FRED> 12just for the halibut
[16:09] <NickE> oh pluhease
[16:09] <Larry> Fleet of Worlds is finished. Juggler of Worlds is half finished. That's going to be a delicate dance.
[16:10] <NickE> Oooh sounds good
[16:10] <Harry_Redd> Oh My COD!
[16:10] <FRED> 12juggler of worlds?
[16:10] <Treehugger> Lord of the Dance, you.
[16:10] <NickE> Beat me to it Frank
[16:10] <SpaceCowboy> Please, you're giving me a haddock...
[16:10] <Treehugger> Scale it down, Fred!
[16:10] <NickE> <arghhh!>
[16:10] <FRED> 12there's something fishy about Bill. I bet he's a pisces, working for scale.
[16:11] <Treehugger> Fred's gone bye-bye, Egon.
[16:11] <SpaceCowboy> Don't I wish...
[16:11] <Harry_Redd> BTW, I saw an interview with Saloman Rustchi Last week. Larry, you and Jerry would like the man and what he has to say!
[16:11] <FRED> 12What I like is his wife.
[16:11] <NickE> Salmon??
[16:11] <FRED> 12How does a guy in hiding score the major babes of all time?
[16:11] <Harry_Redd> Him Nike.
[16:11] <NickE> sorry
[16:11] <Nesssus> What is fleet of worlds about? The Puppeteer Migration?
[16:11] <NickE> Hu yuss
[16:11] <Harry_Redd> Nicke!
[16:12] <NickE> just the tick
[16:12] * vilstef has joined #knownspace
[16:12] <SpaceCowboy> SPOON!
[16:12] <NickE> Hi Gene
[16:12] <FRED> 12<Nesssus> What is fleet of worlds about? - it's about 352 pages
[16:12] <Harry_Redd> I just fed my body medications and can't do a thing with it!
[16:12] <NickE> (didnt spot that opening Bill)
[16:13] <Harry_Redd> Hi Vilstef.
[16:13] <Treehugger> I don't wanna spot Bill's opening!
[16:13] <Larry> And Juggler of Worlds is about Sigmund Ausfaller.
[16:13] <FRED> 12cool!
[16:13] <Treehugger> Cool!
[16:13] <NickE> Oh ho
[16:13] <SpaceCowboy> Sorry ... I'm a bit scatterbrained today. (Under the weather a bit, grabbing at straws.)
[16:14] <Treehugger> I like Siggy.
[16:14] <NickE> An intriguingly annoying character :-)
[16:14] <Treehugger> Always thought there was more depth to him.
[16:14] <Harry_Redd> Siggy is a cool critter. A Peace Officer with something approching a sense of humor.
[16:14] <NickE> :-)
[16:15] <NickE> Be interesting to see more of him certainly
[16:15] <Harry_Redd> Note. Jerry must be VERY Busy. He hasn't updated CHAOS MANOR for 2 days!
[16:15] <Treehugger> And his 007 wardrobe.
[16:16] <NickE> I'm about to eject a CD, so expect to be briefly kicked off
[16:16] <FRED> 12lol
[16:16] <NickE> or not
[16:16] <Harry_Redd> A few builting Multi-Puropse tools make sense... Even in todays world.
[16:16] <FRED> 12so your EJECT button is global?
[16:17] <NickE> well it did it twice earlier
[16:17] <SpaceCowboy> Be glad it doesn't multitask with your computer chair!
[16:17] <FRED> 12POOF
[16:18] <SpaceCowboy> There's a phannish cartoon there... somewhere...
[16:18] <FRED> 12did you see mythbusters actually built an automobile ejector seat?
[16:18] <Harry_Redd> An Esc button that REALKLLY Functions!
[16:18] <NickE> ouch
[16:18] <FRED> 12a TAB button that serves up a frosty beverage?
[16:18] <Harry_Redd> MYTHBUSTERS tends to miss a whole lot of things.
[16:18] <SpaceCowboy> Did they break the dummy's femurs? (What's his name again ...?)
[16:19] <FRED> 12they had to use a different dummy; the standard one was too tall
[16:19] <FRED> 12head stuck right out the roof :)
[16:19] <SpaceCowboy> Oh, so you can only eject very short bad guys?
[16:19] <NickE> of course
[16:19] <FRED> 12they could sit in it fine
[16:20] <FRED> 12the dummy seemed long in the torso
[16:20] <SpaceCowboy> Then they're a lot shorter, too ...
[16:20] <FRED> 12their big problem was, they couldn't use a sports car
[16:20] <FRED> 12because the rakish windscreens come back over the passenger
[16:20] <Harry_Redd> No spinal curve in the Dummies.
[16:21] <SpaceCowboy> So they built an ejection seat and didn't build in a hatch in the roof?
[16:21] <FRED> 12they needed a much more upright front
[16:21] <FRED> 12yeah, they built a hatch. but with the standard dummy, they couldn't close the hatch
[16:21] <SpaceCowboy> Volvo!
[16:21] <vilstef> Watch your head going out. . .
[16:22] * NickE has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[16:22] <Harry_Redd> Please keep arems and leggs inboard when ejecting.
[16:22] <FRED> 12yep
[16:22] <FRED> 12I suspect that if you ejected a living person, you'd have a mess
[16:22] <vilstef> Maybe a separate ejection system for arms & legs
[16:23] <FRED> 12inside and outside the car
[16:23] * NickE has joined #knownspace
[16:24] <NickE> smeg. and that had noyhing to do with a CD
[16:24] <frGeek> Hey all
[16:24] <frGeek> hey all
[16:24] <Harry_Redd> In a car, I'd think a breakaway Top like a canopy would be optimal.
[16:24] <NickE> WWIII going off outside just now. V freaking loud!
[16:24] * frGeek has quit IRC
[16:24] <Harry_Redd> Hi Phil! God to see you.
[16:25] * FrGeek has joined #knownspace
[16:25] <FrGeek> Hey all
[16:25] <Harry_Redd> WB Phil.
[16:25] <SpaceCowboy> I'd think the passenger in an Aston Martin would notice something unusual about the seat. If his head was against the car roof, ya know? The seat rails? The bumblebee yellow handles ...?
[16:26] <Harry_Redd> Yeah. Nukes are not called LOUDENBOOMERS In techDuiche for nothing.
[16:26] <FrGeek> There was also teh james Bond episode wher ehad a c-140 with jection seats LOL
[16:26] <Harry_Redd> Err Earghsplitten Loudenboomers!
[16:26] <NickE> Hi Phil
[16:26] * senax has joined #knownspace
[16:27] <Harry_Redd> Hi Senax!
[16:27] <NickE> Yeah one I saw in the shop today was called "Wrath Of God" FFS!
[16:27] <senax> Hello Frank.
[16:27] <NickE> Hi senax
[16:27] <senax> Hi everyone
[16:28] <SpaceCowboy> Hi newcomers
[16:28] <Harry_Redd> PHil, I'd L*O*V*E to have the power sources for some of those devicces in the Bond movies. MUCH you could do with them.
[16:29] <NickE> <fireworks, big time>
[16:29] <SpaceCowboy> Or a tracker that talks to *your* GPS readout ...
[16:29] <vilstef> Like the Joker would say, "Where does he get all those great toys?"
[16:29] <NickE> :-)
[16:29] <Harry_Redd> "Wrath Of God" Somehow, I'd feel safer facing the Wrath of God than the bumbelings of man.
[16:29] <FRED> 12in the trailer the joker had another line after that
[16:29] <FRED> 12"Well, don't just stand there - GO AND ASK HIM"
[16:29] <FRED> 12and the chase ensued
[16:29] <vilstef> LOL!
[16:29] <FRED> 12I was SO annoyed they cut that
[16:30] <NickE> Yeah
[16:30] <FrGeek> That was an ineteresting thread about the Bizzaro world Joker
[16:30] <vilstef> I was please at how many responded to it
[16:31] <Harry_Redd> Producers rarely have a good sense of humor. Hollywood knockes it out of the, Hollywood being a place where ordinary business is so strange that real humor gets overlooked!
[16:31] <SpaceCowboy> A friend sent me the cool Spider-Man trailer ... the one with the helicopter.
[16:31] <FRED> 12bill, the ejector seat seat bottom was normal height; the dummy was just tall
[16:31] <NickE> Agreed (Bizzaro thread)
[16:31] <Harry_Redd> True!
[16:31] <SpaceCowboy> Ah, Fred ... I get it.
[16:31] <FRED> 12they didn't build the mechanism in the seat bottom -- they built it in the seat back!
[16:32] <NickE> Read a reprint of early Supes with teh earliest Bizzaro appearance
[16:32] <SpaceCowboy> A humorless Joker? Hmm, the mind boggles.
[16:32] <Harry_Redd> ONe of the things in STUNTMAN was Punomatic Launchers. They work well but take a LOT of room.
[16:32] <Treehugger> You want to ejct a passenger, reach over and unhook his seat belt just as you slam on the brakes!
[16:33] <NickE> Lots of B&W late 50's Supes reprints for just 7 quid. Got the GL one as well, earliest silverage Hal, nice
[16:33] <vilstef> Yeah, using the deadliest weapon. . .
[16:33] * Nesssus has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
[16:33] <FrGeek> Woudl the Bizarro world Yoda speak normally?
[16:33] <NickE> HHAHAHA! Funny that is
[16:34] <SpaceCowboy> Maybe, but no sense would he make.
[16:34] <Harry_Redd> The deadliest weapon is the Human mind... Provided you've got it loaded. ;-)
[16:34] <vilstef> Germanic my grammar is.
[16:34] <NickE> :-)
[16:34] <Harry_Redd> And "You too this way would talk if Frank Oz both his hands up your ass he had!"
[16:34] <NickE> hope Mel can make it back, been a while
[16:35] <NickE> LOL
[16:35] <NickE> brb
[16:35] <vilstef> Up your ass & ready to reach out your mouth even!
[16:35] <Harry_Redd> That too!
[16:35] <Treehugger> LMAO Frank!
[16:36] <vilstef> Looks like he swallowed Frank Oz
[16:36] <Harry_Redd> Thanks!
[16:37] <SpaceCowboy> That or he's defecating Frank Oz...
[16:37] <Treehugger> I expected the credits to show Yoda played by Fozzy Bear.
[16:37] <Harry_Redd> NO COMMENT!
[16:37] <vilstef> Or Miss Piggy
[16:37] <Harry_Redd> BAD ARTIST! Noi Cookie!
[16:37] <vilstef> Now that would be range as an actor!
[16:38] <SpaceCowboy> Somebody did a great "Empire" parody with Luke doing his Jedi training with Fozzie in his backpack ... hilarious.
[16:38] <SeanS> hi guys... home now
[16:38] <vilstef> I wonder if that would be on YouTube
[16:39] <SpaceCowboy> It was contemporary with the release of the film ... I couldn't speculate on YouTube
[16:40] <Treehugger> That'd be worth seeing!
[16:40] <NickE> back
[16:40] <vilstef> I'll have to look then. You can see Superhero physics on YouTube BTW
[16:40] <Harry_Redd> HI Sean.
[16:40] <NickE> dogs terrified of fireworks
[16:40] <senax> So are mine...thunder too.
[16:40] <Harry_Redd> A nice way to celebrate my birthday Nick. ;-)
[16:41] <NickE> All for you Frank
[16:41] <SpaceCowboy> Is it your birthday, Frank?
[16:41] <NickE> oh and that Guy Fawkes bloke
[16:41] <senax> Happy birthday Frank
[16:42] <SpaceCowboy> "Birthdays: Better Than The Alternative."
[16:42] <Harry_Redd> Thanks Senax
[16:42] <Harry_Redd> Truly!
[16:42] <SpaceCowboy> Senax is quoting HAL...
[16:42] <SeanS> Larry, I am very sorry about connection problems last month. it has been corrected.
[16:42] <senax> LOL
[16:42] <Harry_Redd> The 5th SC.
[16:43] <senax> That's just what I was thinking
[16:43] * SeanS sets mode: +o Harry_Redd
[16:43] * SeanS sets mode: +v Larry
[16:43] * SeanS sets mode: +o NickE
[16:44] <FRED> 12btw, if anybody here would like a collection of david hasselhoff music videos
[16:44] <FRED> 12they're currently available on my idisk
[16:44] <senax> Had a good launch out of Vandenberg this morning...no fireworks.
[16:44] <SeanS> my isp upgrade worked out well
[16:45] <NickE> So, while we have the collective mind here in part, what do you folks think about the terraforming depicted in Firefly/Serenity? I'm touying with the idea of an article for one of the Firefly podcasts and this is a central theme.
[16:45] <Harry_Redd> This is SCARY! http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2436948,00.html
[16:45] <SeanS> no change to my ip addy and an incredible speed boost
[16:45] <NickE> neat
[16:45] <FRED> 12I think the terraforming in Firefly is idiotic
[16:45] <Harry_Redd> Very Neet!
[16:45] <FRED> 12I think Joss doesn't know the difference between a solar system and a galaxy and a universe
[16:46] <FrGeek> Yah, Terreformin in serenity seems to include changing a planets gravity
[16:46] <FRED> 12yes
[16:46] <NickE> I think his characters don't
[16:46] <FRED> 12they seem to be able to make a habitable world out of ANYTHING
[16:46] <SpaceCowboy> I wouldn't know.
[16:46] <FRED> 12at any distance from the primary
[16:46] <FRED> 12and they don't have ftl
[16:46] <Harry_Redd> they seem to be able to make a habitable world out of ANYTHING Harlequinn's Moon?
[16:46] <vilstef> Frank, that article does produce a chill.
[16:47] <FRED> 12harry, ANYTHING
[16:47] <Treehugger> It helps if all your planets and moons are solid and have the same gravity whatever their size due to different mass.
[16:47] <FRED> 12they turned one system into hundreds of 'new earths'
[16:47] <NickE> Agreed, the grav control tging is a big question, but it's there and there's ways to fanwank round it. Q is, Why didnt they terraform the home system? Or did they and soemthing went wrong?
[16:47] <Harry_Redd> It was predictable. When tribal societies see one tribe get away with something, they try it themselves.
[16:47] <FRED> 12exactly -- who cares if earth was 'used up'
[16:47] <FRED> 12with their terraforming?
[16:48] <FRED> 12they could make every hunk of rock in sol system habitable
[16:48] <NickE> My point exactly
[16:48] <FRED> 12that HAS to be easier than MOVING
[16:48] * Treehugger has quit IRC (Quit: *g0ne*)
[16:48] <Harry_Redd> When it comes to metals, The term "USED UP" only applys to Surface Deposits!
[16:48] <NickE> Right, you dont do that without an extiction level reason breathing down your neck
[16:49] <Harry_Redd> Is Extention Level Reason one that applys to the entire race or just politicians?
[16:50] <FrGeek> In fact I think the solar system woudl be terreformed before wefind a habitable planet
[16:50] <NickE> page just loaded, Treffic. There;s ya exctiction level thrat right there :-(
[16:50] <SpaceCowboy> There's an irony for ya ... build a space colony by terraforming it and in the process alter its course to collide with Earth ...
[16:50] <Harry_Redd> Atleast many of the Moons Phil.
[16:50] <NickE> True. but I gotta work with what's cannon in Firefly
[16:51] * Treehugger has joined #knownspace
[16:51] <senax> A dozen or so would have been more pelievable than "hundreds".
[16:51] <senax> believable
[16:51] <Harry_Redd> True, but that would limit the number of possible of story lines.
[16:52] <senax> It worked ok for Cowboy Bebop :-)
[16:52] <FrGeek> UNless the system was made by ringworld engineer level aliens
[16:52] * nick_danger_3rd_eye has joined #knownspace
[16:52] <vilstef> If the rock is outside the habitation zone, genetic engineering to accomodate conditions is more likely than terraforming
[16:52] <NickE> Joss read good SF, including Larry's so he's not coming at it completely unprepared, though he admits freely that the science side of it is not his striong point
[16:52] <FRED> 12the only way 'hundreds' works is if they had an asteroid belt in the habitable zone
[16:52] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> i'm back. after blowing up £50 ...
[16:52] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> ...of fireworks
[16:53] <vilstef> Good show, Nick!
[16:53] <FRED> 12why fireworkds?
[16:53] <Harry_Redd> Glad you had fun Nick...
[16:53] <NickE> luckily, that is not the main appeal of the series, character and story. But I'm interested in looking at this MAJOR hard SF background point
[16:53] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> I can almost hear again!
[16:53] <FRED> 12agreed, I *love* firefly
[16:53] <vilstef> Remember, remember the 5th of November. . .
[16:53] <NickE> Thats the one
[16:53] <FRED> 12but I gritted my teeth through that narration opening every week
[16:54] <FRED> 12and was horrified when they revived it for Serenity
[16:54] <NickE> Which doesnt appear in teh DVDs
[16:54] <Harry_Redd> Knowing something about the base character of the "Brits" One of these days, there will be some REAL Fireworks on the GUY's Day.
[16:54] <FRED> 12no
[16:54] <FRED> 12I thought we were free of it
[16:54] <FRED> 12I thought maybe Fox added it
[16:54] <FRED> 12and Joss killed it
[16:54] <FRED> 12given that it's back in the movie, I'm not sure why it's not on the DVDs
[16:54] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> ya... death to Guy Fawkes
[16:55] <NickE> Probably one of the little compromises he had to make to get the BDM made
[16:55] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> narration?
[16:55] <FRED> 12yeah, firefly, when it aired, had narration by the reverend
[16:56] <NickE> Earth that was could no longer support us....
[16:56] <NickE> etc
[16:56] <NickE> Pooted back story of why the 'verse existed
[16:56] <NickE> potted
[16:57] <Harry_Redd> A pity that they didn't solve that problem by killing off most of the lawyers!
[16:57] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> really? I never heard it
[16:57] <NickE> True
[16:57] <FRED> 12okay, incoming:
[16:57] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> I never saw it on tv. and it was the same one as at the beginning of the movie?
[16:57] <SpaceCowboy> Pity? Or pooty?
[16:57] <FRED> 12After the Earth was used up, we found a new solar system and hundreds of new Earths were terraformed and colonized. The central planets formed the Alliance and decided all the planets had to join under their rule. There was some disagreement on that point. After the War, many of the Independents who had fought and lost drifted to the edges of the system, far from Alliance control. Out here, people struggled to get by with the most basic technologies; a ship
[16:57] <NickE> It's at teh start of Serenity
[16:57] <FRED> 12that's the original Firefly narration
[16:58] <FRED> 12then they changed it
[16:58] <FRED> 12and made it worse:
[16:58] <NickE> Yup, its also printed at the start of the comic books
[16:58] <FRED> 12Here's how it is: Earth got used up, so we terraformed a whole new galaxy of Earths, some rich and flush with new technologies, some not so much. Central Planets, them was formed the Alliance, waged war to bring everyone under their rule; a few idiots tried to fight it, among them myself. I'm Malcolm Reynolds, captain of the Serenity. Got a good crew: fighters, pilot, mechanic. We even picked up a preacher, and a bona fide companion. There's a doctor, too, h
[16:58] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> oh. Don't miss it really? I don't see how it would have added anything.
[16:58] <FRED> 12in Serenity they said:
[16:58] <FRED> 12Earth-that-was could no longer sustain our numbers, we were so many. We found a new solar system - dozens of planets and hundreds of moons. Each one terraformed - a process taking decades, to support human life, to be new earths. The Central Planets formed the Alliance. Ruled by an interplanetary parliament, the Alliance was a beacon of civilization. The savage outer planets were not so enlightened and refused Alliance control. The war was devastating, but t
[16:58] <NickE> Nope, just for the hignorant
[16:59] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> the professor and mary ann, here on gilligans spaceship
[16:59] <Treehugger> Dozens of planets, hundreds of moons . . . fixed in only decades. Impressive.
[16:59] <FRED> 12heh, terraforming worlds with coconut and bamboo
[16:59] <Harry_Redd> the term DECADES bothers me. Centuries is almost believeable, but Melinimem would be more likely.
[16:59] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> I'm glad they took it off the episodes.
[16:59] <NickE> Its a scoot over of what must have been the real reasons. this is something I want to explore in the possible article I mentioned
[17:00] <FRED> 12given that they had to get to the new system STL
[17:00] <NickE> It's only 500 years in the future. V short timescale
[17:00] <FRED> 12who cares if it took millenia to terraform?
[17:00] <NickE> Generation ships
[17:01] <FRED> 12gotta wonder how you put earth normal gravity on hundreds of moons and not send 'em flying every which way, too
[17:01] <NickE> The high tech was there before the migration
[17:01] <FRED> 12they must have short range gravity
[17:01] <Treehugger> Mind you, wasn't last one said by a teacher? She may have been exagerating, or lying.
[17:01] <SpaceCowboy> Or approach C to a high degree and their travel time would be completely subjective...
[17:01] <FRED> 12goes just high enough to hold the air
[17:01] <NickE> Official history
[17:01] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> Well, I think it's the best sci-fi tv show I have seen in about, oh 20 years, silly naration or not. Mainly because of the chararcters in it
[17:01] <NickE> Local is my guess, works for the ships
[17:01] <FRED> 12yes, the last one is said by the teacher, so could be suspect
[17:01] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> and the high quality writing..
[17:01] <NickE> Agreed, it ROCKS
[17:02] <Harry_Redd> Good story lines.
[17:02] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> particulary Jaynestown
[17:02] <FRED> 12yes, like I said, I love it
[17:02] <Harry_Redd> Better than GSG.
[17:02] <FrGeek> OK who is this for a fanwank.... probes were sent to terrrform eth worlds. It took centruies, but for teh crew under time dilation it seemed like only cneturies.
[17:02] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> I think that must be the best episode of any sci fi show I have ever seen.
[17:02] <NickE> Oooh, I like that
[17:03] <NickE> Probes could have gone faster
[17:03] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> I hadn't seen the last episode until the other day. Hadn't wanted to watch it...
[17:03] <Treehugger> Hey, the writer wanted lots of worlds but no FTL. We got Firefly & Serenity. Good deal!
[17:03] <FRED> 12the problem is
[17:03] <nick_danger_3rd_eye> so i wouldn't run out
[17:03] <FRED> 12we know what year firefly is in
[17:03] <FRED> 122517 AD
[17:03] <NickE> yes
[17:03] <NickE> but is that ship time?
[17:03] <FRED> 12heh
[17:03] <Harry_Redd> 2517 Subjective?
[17:04] <NickE> Would have to be some dilation effect due to distance
[17:04] <SpaceCowboy> Like I suggested above.
[17:04] <Treehugger> And there's Galactic Savings Time . . . and by the way, wouldn't they be using a Chinese calandar?
[17:04] <NickE> assuming that the 'verse is a system within say 50 LY
[17:04] <NickE> :-)
[17:04] <SpaceCowboy> Approach C, build up a fierce Tau Factor...
[17:04] <Harry_Redd> True. Politicians would never understand the difference and would set the calendar dates. ;-)
[17:05] <NickE> Sounds possible
[17:05] <FrGeek> YES blame it on te politicians!
[17:05] * FRED is now known as a
[17:05] <Harry_Redd> a?
[17:05] <NickE> There's lots of fanwank routes around some of the problems
[17:06] <FrGeek> SPACECOWBOY, I did not notice your beat me to the time dilation idea.
[17:06] <a> 12.
[17:06] <Harry_Redd> LS Radio Communications too. I doubt that there would be any real contact with Earth.
[17:06] <FrGeek> Well we have all called fred a ____ ;)
[17:07] <SpaceCowboy> Great minds and all, FrGeek ... ;)
[17:07] <NickE> But I want to examine the possibility of humanity remaining in the home system...or maybe they were fleeing aggressive AI, sombody here did that :-)
[17:07] <FrGeek> Like earthdeleoping FTL abd returningto the Serenity system?
[17:07] <vilstef> The Japanese with nanotech AI toys maybe?
[17:07] <FrGeek> Let me try that again
[17:08] <FrGeek> Like earth developing FTL abd returning to the Serenity system?
[17:08] <NickE> Unless theer was say a massive change in solar output and terraformed or not, it was time to quit the home system. 500 years later, they'd probably only refer to Earth That Was
[17:08] <Harry_Redd> They were actually fleeing Marketing people and telephone Sanitizers. ;-)
[17:08] * a is now known as a_galaxy_of_FREDS
[17:09] <NickE> LOL!!!
[17:09] <vilstef> Telemarketers going phone sanitation ?
[17:09] <vilstef> Doing phone sanitation
[17:09] <Harry_Redd> A massive change in Solar Output would only make Outer planet moons habitzable, unless it was NOVA sized.
[17:09] <NickE> Think I'll keep it STL, this is meant to be an article, not fan fiction (of which there is LOTS)
[17:10] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12soo tired of the political phone calls
[17:10] <NickE> I was thiking a massive DROP in solar output, a big freeze
[17:10] <Harry_Redd> Even then Urainus and Neptunes moons might be made liveable. Lots of Ice and rock to work with there.
[17:10] <SeanS> yeah, i cant wait till next wednesday when all the political crap will be over
[17:11] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12you'll never make uranus liveable frank
[17:11] <Treehugger> Amen, SeanS!
[17:11] <Treehugger> LOL, FRED!
[17:11] <Harry_Redd> Unexpected Conciquences of Politics Sean. Enrichment of Printing outfits!
[17:11] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12that's the problem with gas giants
[17:11] <Treehugger> What are you implying about Harry?
[17:12] <FrGeek> Well far easier than terriforming or exploration would be buiding huge space habitats enetually becomeinga classical dyson sphere IE lots of individual habitats foring a sphere-like cloud
[17:12] <Harry_Redd> Urainus has moons thaat would work though Ffred.
[17:12] <NickE> Xactly. The migration and terraforming is an effort comparable to building a RW IMO
[17:12] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12and I hear there are rings around uranus too frank
[17:13] <Harry_Redd> You've been looking Fred?
[17:13] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12listening
[17:13] <FrGeek> Oh this is going nowhere good...
[17:13] <NickE> There had to be a real pressing reason to get out of Dodge
[17:13] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12yes nick
[17:13] <Harry_Redd> Truly Phil.
[17:13] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12I'm not sure what's going on in the opening of serenity
[17:14] <Harry_Redd> Agreed NickE.
[17:14] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12if all those big flashes on the earth are supposed to be nukes, or ships taking off, or what
[17:14] <NickE> Looks like war, with all the flashes on ETW
[17:14] <NickE> Deliberately vague I'm sure
[17:14] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12hey, you see speilberg is gonna screw up When Worlds Collide?
[17:14] <NickE> Oh no
[17:14] <FrGeek> I always assumed they were ships. Maybe super orions.
[17:14] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12yeah
[17:15] <Harry_Redd> Most wars are survivable. A Nanobot War, well things would be very iffy.
[17:15] <NickE> Almost would have to be to shift that much population and hardware
[17:15] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12Tom Cruise IS "Cole Hendron"
[17:15] <NickE> Cruise, oh boy
[17:15] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12joking about that
[17:15] <NickE> thakn f**k for that!
[17:15] <FrGeek> I hate overuse of nanotech in sci-fi. It lieka hip version of unobtainaium
[17:16] <Harry_Redd> OMG! The dumbing down of 1930's SF!
[17:16] <NickE> Hey, re-reading Startide Rising, Brin actually uses the term "the moon had a core of almost 1% unobtanium" Heh
[17:16] <Harry_Redd> I don't mind it's use Phil, I really object to the Negative use of it.
[17:16] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12hmm. okay, it's now listed to be directed by steven somers
[17:16] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12When a group of astronomers calculate a star is on a course to slam into Earth, a few days before, it's accompanying planet will first pass close enough to the Earth to cause havoc on land and sea. They set about building a rocket so a few selected individuals can escape to the planet.
[17:17] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12man. that's a great a synopsis as the one for the ringworld mini series
[17:17] <NickE> Just as long as they leave Forbidden Planet and Day The Earth Stood Still alone
[17:17] <FrGeek> Of course teh problem with tah if its going close enough to spell the end of thearth, the rogue planets going to get hosed.
[17:18] <Harry_Redd> I liked the "Free Planets" Idea of the original.
[17:18] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12yeah, making one a star was a bit much
[17:18] <NickE> yes
[17:18] <Treehugger> Nanotech is like the Trek transporter; a cute idea but too damn useful. If it worked and was developed enough, it could do anything.
[17:18] <FrGeek> NICK You read my mind, just about to say teh same thing about "The day teh earth stood still"
[17:18] <NickE> Great film
[17:18] <NickE> Those are probably my 2 fave 50s films
[17:19] <FrGeek> YAH teh ST transpoter is also a the fountain of youth and the ultimate weapon
[17:19] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 1220,000 Leagues Under the Sea is my favorite 50s film
[17:19] <Harry_Redd> I think that maybe most Film people don't watch the Astro Science shows on PBS.
[17:20] <NickE> Or any science stuff
[17:20] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12film people don't watch tv
[17:20] <Treehugger> I liked one I think was titled 20 million years to Earth.
[17:20] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12or read books
[17:20] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12tthey only watch films
[17:20] <Harry_Redd> Fave 50's SF is FORBIDDAN PLANET handsdown. WAR OF THE WORLD comes close in some ways.
[17:20] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 1220 Million Miles to Earth is Harryhausen, the Ymir
[17:20] <NickE> Agrred
[17:20] * SeanS sets mode: +v SpaceCowboy
[17:20] <vilstef> Considering the literacy of most films, I'd say the people who make them mostly listen to each other.
[17:20] <NickE> FP is the dogs
[17:20] <FrGeek> Yah bad sci-fi gives sci-fi a bad name. It gives geeks a bad name too. No wait, its geeks that gives geeks a bad name ;)
[17:21] <Treehugger> FRED, is that the one with the alien ship found under the city, and the alien lifeforce gets loose?
[17:21] <Harry_Redd> <vilstef> Considering the literacy of most films, I'd say the people who make them mostly listen to each other. Just like the MEDIA folk. A Closed community.
[17:21] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12no
[17:21] <NickE> Fraid Torchwood is going that route
[17:21] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12that's quartermass . . .
[17:21] <vilstef> Day the Earth Stood Still is another great 50s sf film
[17:21] <NickE> Nigel Kneal jsut died
[17:22] <Harry_Redd> A shame abgou5 Kneal.
[17:22] <NickE> Agreed Gene
[17:22] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12five million years to earth
[17:22] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12is the one in the pit in england
[17:22] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12and the telepathic locusts
[17:22] <Treehugger> That's it, Fred.
[17:22] <NickE> yeah, folks still remember his stuff, not just Quatermass, though it paved the way for Who and better SF
[17:23] <vilstef> I saw 5 Million years to earth at my first con.
[17:23] <FrGeek> Remeber that episode of cheers wher norm and cliff reneted soem of those movie and send a guys night watching them, and Dr. Crane says how literate and shakespearain FOrbidden planet and teh ilk were?
[17:23] <Treehugger> I really liked that one.
[17:23] <Harry_Redd> The originzal QUARTERMASS film with Brian Donleavy about Aliens putting a colony one Earth is one they NEVER show!
[17:23] <NickE> Well FP is a version of The Tempest after all
[17:23] <senax> And Strange Brew was Hamlet
[17:24] <Harry_Redd> Stealing from the best again NickE
[17:24] <senax> :-)
[17:24] <FrGeek> Yes, and it made Norn and Cliff loose all interest in it
[17:24] <NickE> :-)
[17:26] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12I still want to try 'bef'
[17:26] <FrGeek> Wait thats it, Forbidden planet with shakespeaian dialog. "and yon first mate, taketh the helm and engage the engines warpal..."
[17:26] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12not beef, it's a trademark
[17:26] <NickE> Return To The Forbidden Planet was the best stage musical I'd seen since Rocky Horror
[17:26] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12really?
[17:26] <NickE> But soft, what light from yonder airlock breaks
[17:27] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12'tis the Id, and Honey is the West
[17:27] <FrGeek> Yah, you don't see me complaining about he loobster
[17:27] <NickE> Beware the IDs of March!
[17:27] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12:D
[17:27] <NickE> I have the soundtrack too
[17:28] <NickE> Shakespeare, Rock and Roll and SF with audience participation...excellent
[17:28] <FrGeek> Alas poor yorick, I knew him horacio, before tha smiling face and sturdy frame were hoobly mangle sin a transporter accident....
[17:28] <NickE> <grin>
[17:29] <vilstef> oops
[17:29] <SpaceCowboy> I haven't heard of that Quatermass job, Felix, but do like the one with the martian bugs.
[17:29] <vilstef> It was probably that broken airlock, actually.
[17:29] <NickE> The Pit is the onbe people remember best I think
[17:29] <SpaceCowboy> "Honey is the West" ... LOL!
[17:29] <a_galaxy_of_FREDS> 12:)
[17:30] <FrGeek> Well I must be off, i may be back in 3-4 hours for the ozzies
[17:30] <NickE> TTFn Phil
[17:30] <Harry_Redd> All the Quartermass films are pretty interresting.
[17:30] * FrGeek has quit IRC
[17:30] <vilstef> Cya Phil
[17:30] <Treehugger> Four words: Teenagers From Outer Space. Love that raygun!
[17:30] <NickE> TA for soem intersting ideas
[17:30] <Harry_Redd> Adios Phil.
[17:31] <SpaceCowboy> L8R Phil
[17:31] <senax> bye Phil
[17:32] <SpaceCowboy> Steve McQueen's "Beware of the Blob" ... love that theme music!
[17:32] <Harry_Redd> THEM works... Except for the innital premis. ;-)
[17:33] <SpaceCowboy> That and the inverse square law, Harry ... chitin just couldn't stand up to them in Them.
[17:34] * Harry_Redd sets mode: +v vilstef
[17:34] <Harry_Redd> Try now Vil.
[17:34] <vilstef> OK
[17:35] <SpaceCowboy> Actually that's inverse cube...
[17:35] <Harry_Redd> Truly SC, But I liked the idea that a Thompson could do enough damage to kill THEM. ;-)
[17:35] <Harry_Redd> Bullets CAN stop them!
[17:35] <SpaceCowboy> Instead of deuce-anna-halfs the Army should've come in with Orkin trucks.
[17:36] <senax> or a really big shoe
[17:36] <SpaceCowboy> Or *huge* Roach Motels...
[17:36] <Harry_Redd> RECON Jeeps (with Ma Duc3e) worked too!
[17:36] <vilstef> Bring in Franz Kafka, just to see his reaction.
[17:37] <Harry_Redd> REALLY BIG Magnifying Glass during the day!
[17:37] <NickE> biobreak
[17:37] <SpaceCowboy> ROTFL!
[17:37] <vilstef> Huge frogs!
[17:37] <Harry_Redd> No HUGE Horned Toads!
[17:38] <senax> or divert them by using tanker trucks to make a trail of molasses
[17:38] <SpaceCowboy> Didn't I see an episode of The Tick where the intelligent ants were building a huge magnifying glass to attack the humans?
[17:38] <vilstef> Maybe the 50 foot woman to wear that big shoe?
[17:38] <Harry_Redd> A BOOT!
[17:39] <SpaceCowboy> With 15-foot spiked heels ...
[17:39] <vilstef> :)
[17:39] <Harry_Redd> NO, She's be stomping on hevery male for looking up her dress!
[17:39] <SpaceCowboy> Do you know HOW MANY COWS would have to die ....? nevermind.
[17:40] <a_galax